The federal agent whose gun fired the bullet that killed Kate Steinle was in court today, and in the course of a couple of hours, he testified that:
— He drove from Southern California to San Francisco with three kids, including a five-year-old, in the car while his .40 caliber Sig-Sauer pistol was loaded, ready to fire, and secured only in a backpack;
— He parked on the Embarcadero only after seeing other fancy cars and a parking control officer and deciding it was safe, because safety was his first priority at all times;
— He believed it was safe to leave the loaded gun with a round in the chamber in a backpack under the seat;
— He had been issued a locking device that would have kept the gun from firing, but decided not to use it;
— He had kept the gun in the ready-fire position while he was off-duty with his family although no Bureau of Land Management regulation required him to do that, and in fact, there was no requirement that he carry a gun at all when off duty;
— He was aware that BLM policy states that “all firearms not in active use should be stored in a safe place out of sight and under lock and key;”
And yet, when he was asked if he thought leaving the gun in a backpack in his private car, without a locking mechanism, was a safe way to store it, he said “yes.”
Prosecutor Diana Garcia fought constantly to keep out of the record any discussion of whether the agent, John Woychowski, was in any way responsible for initiating the chain of events that led to the tragic death of the 32-year-old woman.
Every time Matt Gonzalez, the public defender representing Jose Ines Garcia Zarate, who is charged with murder, tried to ask a question related to that issue, she objected.
And nearly every time, Judge Samuel Feng upheld her objection and refused to allow the question.
In her direct examination, Garcia took Woychowski through the events of the night his gun was stolen, and asked him if he had ever been subject to discipline for violating BLM procedures related to gun safety. He said he hadn’t.
Gonzalez dug into the BLM internal investigation, reading from the memos that the investigators wrote after interviewing Woychowski. “when you were asked why you did this [leave the gun unsecured in the car] you said ‘this is something I never do,’” Gonalez noted. “When the BLM agent asked you why you secured the gun this way, you said ‘I really don’t know why I left it like that.’”
Garcia objected. The judge told Gonzalez to move on to other questions.
The Sig-Sauer has two firing positions, single and double action. In a double-action mode, the trigger has to be pulled harder, to move the hammer back and then release it onto the firing pin. Woychowski explained that he loaded the gun with a seven round magazine, jacked a bullet into the chamber, then released the magazine and put another round in.
Along the way, the gun would have been in single-action mode, which allows it to be fired with much less pressure on the trigger.
“If you forgot to depress the uncocking lever, it would still be in single-action mode, correct?” Gonzalez asked. The agent said it would.
That’s relevant because the defense is arguing that Zarate picked up the gun, which was wrapped in a shirt, and it went off accidentally. When the Sig-Sauer is in single-action mode, it requires very little pressure on the trigger to discharge.
Garcia asked the agent if he or any of his colleagues had ever had a Sig-Sauer discharge by accident. He said he knew of nobody who had that problem.
Gonzalez asked him how many colleagues he had, and the answer was never more than 14.
In his opening statement, Gonzalez said he would present evidence that this type of gun has gone off in many instances by accident.
At the end of the session, Gonzalez asked Woychowski: “Do you believe you bear any responsibility for what happened?”
Garcia objected. The judge agreed. The question was never answered.
Of course the jury knows that you can’t get blood from a turnip (Zarate) and that the Steinle family should be compensated for their loss. I’d say that now the federal agency (and the agent) whose gun fired the bullet that killed Kate Steinle have jumped from the frying pan into the fire…
Gee, can’t imagine why…
My Daddy is dead. Journalists write about topics which interest their target audience and there seems to be national interest in this story
Why thank you. And yes, I have noticed that. I’m a bit “Law and Order” fan as well. It is one of best police and lawyer shows on TV. I especially miss Lennie Briscoe played by Jerry Orbach. He was my favorite. Munch on SVU was good as well. Great characters, played by great actors. Did you ever see the British version? “Law and Order: Queen’s Counsel.” Kind of surreal, same style, some bum-bump sound, but everything is British.
And she defined the Stanford rapist who got a light sentence…
No, but you are acting like a complete ass. And I have seen you defending rapists and rape culture. Remember?
That’s easy. She is.
Oh, and you are right. I am downright intolerant of bigots, racists, white supremacists, neo-Nazis, as well as extremists on the Left like Antifa, and some others who resort to violence. If you want to defend such people, have at it, but I won’t tolerate them.
You’re an animal. A disgusting, rape-y, bullying, abusive animal. You’re garbage.
Stop abusing women, stop insisting they do as you say even after they’ve said no many times.
No means no to everyone but a rapist. You are acting like a rapist at this point.
You’re an abusive, bullying animal who doesn’t understand that trying to force and threaten women into doing something they’ve said no to is a CRIME.
Yes, you have one foot in the grave and you’re living off MY tax dollars. You’re a sexist, bigoted, abusive thug.
You’re an abusive POS.
You’re a disgusting, abusive animal.
Again,
I did not know you are a woman. Changes everything. You can call me anything you want and I won’t respond.
I honestly thought that your were a decorated U.S. Marine Corps veteran, now a diver with the SFPD.
Trust me, last thing in the world I ever want to do is meet you.
Go Astros!
h.
Aquamarine,
Again, deny that you are Sergeant Raymond Hurley, writing I’d guess, from deep deep in the Marine closet?
Just deny it and say that your are actually a female?
Go Astros!
h.
Hey, ‘Playland’,
My name is Harold Lee Brown. I go by the honest handle of ‘h. brown’.
Honest enough for you?
What’s your name?
Go Astros!
h.
Love your comments, Geek–Girl,
Sorry to be hard on you but if you had not noticed it there are lots and lots of liars misrepresenting themselves here.
Actually?
I kind a dig it.
I mean, hell, I’ve seen all of the ‘Law and Order’ shows at least a couple of times.
Go Astros!
h.
Welfare?
I spent 11 years in uniform for this nation and 30 years teaching behavior to challenged youth. You’re feeding me?
I paid into Social Security for 47 years!
How long you got on the books?
Go Astros!
h.
Show some honesty here,
Are you Sergeant Raymond Hurley?
!
‘LE’ is common abbreviation for ‘Law Enforcement’?
Not if you’re not a cop.
Don’t be ashamed of your profession.
Don’t be ashamed of your name.
Come right out and shout it
If you are a female, I will not reply to you again because you’re hiding behind your gender which does not validate the lies you’re spreading.
You play the gender card and I’ll play the geezer card and then we’ll let the readers decide who’s the bigger butt.
Go Astros!
n
Are you a woman?
I thought you were Sgt. Raymond Hurley. You know, he’s an ex-marine which fits the ‘marine’ part of the cowardly troll’s ID and then, he’s an underwater bomb guy.
Thus, ‘Aquafake ‘ and ‘Marine’ I put together.
If you are female and were offended that I thought you were one of the most macho characters I’ve ever seen, I understand your anger and apologize.
You should be able to hid behind any numbers of fake ID;s while you attack moi.
So, Sgt Hurlley, I apologize to you.
You were not the coward who attacked me then refused to meet with me face to face.
It was a woman.
Anonymous.
Cowardly.
Troll.
Go Astros!
h.
Craig,
When did I ever in my life threaten a woman?
h.
Then tell Daddy to stop writing about it.
It’s not my business and unless they have hired you as their PR representative it is not yours either
Yeah. So are the Steinles. Yap away to them.
I don’t claim omniscience in this case, just an observer. I’m sorry the whole thing happened.
Yes, I should have mentioned that Newsom was appointed to the Board of Supervisors by Willie Brown. Newsom was sort of chosen as Brown’s successor.
Read his testimony. He loaded the gun, chambered a round, which would have put the gun in single action mode, removed the magazine, and added another bullet. If he forgot to press the appropriate lever, or he just didn’t, the gun would be in single action mode. And it seems strange that he would even have the gun loaded. He was not on duty, and was traveling to an assignment in Montana. He had his fiancé, and children, including a 5 year old. He did not bother putting a lock on his gun. All of this seems odd. Did he expect to need his gun during the trip? He certainly seems to feel the need to be able to fire quickly. Are BLM rangers involved in that many deadly force situations?
Thanks for the history lesson. You know who was also one of Willie Brown’s acolytes? Newsom. And Kamala Harris. And all the other ones you mentioned.
“He had a gun that was loaded, and possibly cocked.”
is there evidence for this statement – the gun being possibly cocked?
I don’t lie.
Your crazed and threatening demands for my personal information show you to be a creepy, predatory, abusive thug.
That’s why you have no friends, old man. Because you’re a bad person. Own it.
You are literally threatening women if they do not give you their identity. Do you even hear yourself? You think you can demand that women do as you insist, that it is somehow your right to get anything you want from women, or else.
There’s a reason you’re old and alone, Harry. Work on that.
Law Enforcement. Common abbreviation.
Yes, I tend not to give personal information to crazy old geezers on the internet.
You seem to think if women don’t give you what you want the moment you demand it, they’re in the wrong.
You must be a huge fan of Harvey Weinstein.
The jury is doing its job without people like me. Or you, for that matter.
Nothing is ever that simple. You seem to be a self righteous know it all but the fact is you weren’t there you don’t know what happened and you seem to be spending a lot of time preaching to other people who don’t know either. Why not let the jury do it’s job without people like you?
ROTFL! There is no convincing evidence that hd his shoot on purpose. And this phony, who claims to have a JD degree, shows a complete disregard for due process. The prosecutor has to prove that he shot on purpose. And so far hasn’t. But our fake JD here tries, rather clumsily, to imply that he did.
ROTFL! I find it interesting that she has gone from “prim and proper” to a raving nutcase. She tried being condescending, and acting superior. Now she is vulgar and nasty. To quote Bug Bunny, “What a maroon.”
Being retired makes me a welfare sycophant? And that phrase does not even make sense. Again, she is one of the nuttiest characters I have encountered online, as well as one of the most ignorant. She seems to think she knows stuff she clearly doesn’t. She is a classic bigot, spewing intolerance, and hatred.
Wow, that is a fancy bit of tap dancing around the issue. First off, the previous sheriff had done a pretty good job of running the place for many years, Mirkarimi did not need to reinvent the wheel. And when he became sheriff, pretty much all of the deputies had been there for a while, and knew there jobs. I know he was attacked by some for mistakes made by others, which was really lame. Then again, if he done what they seemed to claim he should, they would have accused him of micromanaging deputies, and insulting their intelligence.
Law Enforcement, obviously, though I have never seen it used that way. She is one of the craziest loons I have encountered on line. And trust me, I have met some pretty crazy people. But she takes the cake.
There she goes again. She tried this crap with me, and I discovered she tends to pull this crap whenever anyone bests her in a discussion. She also quickly resorts to nasty insults but complains if others do what she considers the same. Like many, she equates someone point out fact (that she is clearly a bigot, right wing kook, liar, etc.) with falsely accusing people of stalking, referring to them as “grandpa,” or “senile,” etc. And claiming to report them to “their security team,” or in your case, law enforcement. Perhaps her “security team” got fed up with crap, so they all quit.
I can’t help it,
Aquamarine, if I had been your teacher you would not be so disrespectful and dishonest. Why do you lie, lie, lie?
Seriously, who schooled you?
Again and again and again …
What’s your name?
What’s your name?
What’s your name?
Give us your name.
Why are you so ashamed of your name?
Go Astros!
h.
As I pointed out, the law in Washington state does not differentiate between possession, distribution, and manufacturing.
Yes, she has been caught lying several times. She claims to have a JD, but I find that implausible. She has shown a woeful grasp on certain things.
Nope. Again, I have never worked in law enforcement, or for the SFSD, or any other part of City government.
My name is Harold Lee Brown.
What’s your name?
Uh, no… I am not now, or have I ever been a member of SFSD or any other law enforcement agency.
I have seen nothing that indicates he did.
No, as I say, I was not with SFSD. BTW, I met Mirkarimi once, on Fell Street as he was coming back from City Hall. He was with his attorney, we spoke briefly, and he was quite cordial.
Sorry to disappoint you, but nope….
So,
Let’s get that out of the way. Were yoiu personally involved in the transfer of this prisoner from Southern to Northern California?
h.
Here’s my reply Aquamarine,
h brown
11:15 PM (22 minutes ago)
to tim, George, bcc: me
Tim and George,
Tim, you should have some limits to your posters but that is your own business but I certainly will not frequent your site after this trial if you do not stop people from cursing and threatening me.
George,
Do you know who ‘Aquamarine’ is?
I sure as hell hope not.
Also,
Ta hell’s LE? Did you mean to say Ed Lee and misspelled it?
Really, who’s gonna meet me to apply for the lottery for the Steinle trial tomorrow that you’re sending?
Ta hell’s LE?
Guess I’ll see in a few hours.
Go Astros!
h.
Well,
We know you won’t be there don’t we?
By the way, you neglected to mention your name.
Go Astros!
h.
I get it Geek Girl,
You’ve gotten paid overtime for just such assignments and maybe even this one, right?
My point is and yours should be …
Did Ross Mirkarimi approve the overtime to go pick up Jose?
As you note, probably not.
A subordinate did.
Were you that subordinate?
h.
Watch out there!
I don’t know who you are but I’m betting lots of deputies do and it might not be a good idea to say that Mirk’s staff was incompetent.
Not so.
Virtually everyone of them was appointed by Mike Hennessey who is on my personal Hero List.
What’s your name?
Does your family know that you are ashamed to use your name and that you continually attack your betters from anonymous ambush?
I’ll tell them if I get the chance.
Please go talk to my family about me.
There are well over 5,000 of them in Missouri alone and I’m certain that most of them would have a comment.
Where are you from?
What color are you?
How old are you?
Do you have a favorite team or color or whatever?
What do you do that makes it impossible for you come to the courthouse and reveal yourself?
…
He/She ain’t gonna answer none of this and I’m going to crash cause I have to meet my admirers at 850 Bryant tomorrow at 8:30am.
Right?
h.
So anyone who doesn’t meet random strangers is a coward? What kind of sick predator are you? I will alert LE that you will be there, that you have threatened me several times (all your threats are now screen-capped), and I will give them the name you gave me.
Enjoy that, grandpa. Enjoy being arrested for threatening people physically and telling them to meet you on the steps of a courthouse or else.
Enjoy the FUCK out of that, you sick, predatory old creep.
Playland,
What if I told you that I had documents showing you as being charged as a …. pedophile … in Washington State and did not produce the proof?
Please produce the proof.
And, furthermore …
I’ll see you 8:30pm in front of the Hall of Justice tomorrow or you’ll shut the blank up?
h.
Again, Aquamarine,
Show your face or shut up! I will be on the front steps at 850 Bryant tomorrow at 8:30am to apply for the lottery for one of the 24 tickets allotted to the Public each day.
You will be there to introduce yourself to me.
Or, you will be a worthless, cowardly piece of …
Go Astros!
h.
No, you have done nothing but spew senile assholery at everyone.
You’re just as anonymous as I am, princess.
Hey lame butt,
I spent 47 years working to protect your sorry butt so that you can insult me in safety. You are a piece of crap if you don’t show up in court and introduce yourself to me in the hallway.
Crap, I’m almost 80 and you can only insult me from behind anonymous posts?
Hell, I must be doing something right.
Go Astros!
h.
I’m not the resident Trump voter. That would be Jennifer.
Okey-dokey, old dude. So I’ll be seeing you at North Face, right?
As I said, not all of us are living off welfare. People like me put a roof over your head, food on your table.
Careful not to bite the hand that feeds you, you creepy old goat. Careful.
Hey weakling,
I did 112 miles a week for 30 years atween here and Sausalito. You run like a girl. Hopefully, you are one. I also ran 20 miles a day for a year and tried to run across the entire country (got from Charleston to Atlanta til I ran out of money.
Tried to run here to LA 20 years or so back but cops turned me back at San Luis Obispo cause you cannot legally transit California highways on foot.
Don’t lay physical on me, you’re a wimp.
You want to impress me with your strength and courage and character?
Show up at the trial tomorrow morning and introduce yourself to me.
You won’t because you are a sniveling coward hiding in cyber-space.
Hey,
“Off the table now.”
Really?
How about (and, while Gonzo is a good friend of mine, I have no inside info on his strategy …
Off the table?
What if Gonzalez calls him to the witness stand?
While none of you ranting on here have actually seen this guy or this trial, if he takes the stand, no one in their right mind listening to him talk is going to conclude that he has the capacity to form an ‘intent’ to kill.
The guy just isn’t there.
If you’d go watch him, you’d realize that.
Stop channeling Donald Trump and go to the courthouse!
h.
Truly sorry you have to work,
Frankly, I’ve worked many jobs and was never quite fond of getting up in the morning and go take orders from someone dumber than me.
Take a day off and go watch history.
Or, just be what you are.
Whining and complaining and blame-shifting?
That’s gotta take more energy than getting on public transit and making the actual scene.
Go Astros~!
h.
They could have turned him into the Feds in Southern Cal.. Yet, someone got overtime pay to bring him up here?
Is that true?
Seriously, do you know if this was a case of the Sheriff’s deputies padding their checks?
Answer me.
Do you know?
h.
Aaaaaand this is why Trump won. This. You. Thanks. Great freakin’ job. And you’re hell-bent on getting him re-elected in 2020.
Honestly, it’s when I read dreck like your comment that I’m actually glad he won.
Y’all deserve him.
You’re the same people.
Its comments like yours about coastal elites looking down on the rest of the country that make this more of a political theatre than it is, and make people tend to rush to this guy’s defense. The most interesting aspect of this case is the intense interest generated on both sides. People are shot every day in this country, over 8000 in 2016 . The US is off the charts compared to other countries in terms of death via gun violence. Why do you suppose this case is attracting more attention than others?
There is something about this man that makes people (like me) feel like he is naked, alone and being persecuted by a witch hunt of conservatives – that’s why in some ways I feel like rushing to his defense. On the other hand, I don’t think I want him hanging around my neighborhood at night either. I’m not saying he is innocent or guilty, I am just commenting on the near absurdity of the political theatre.
you have a tendency to be very self righteous but the fact is, you weren’t there . If you want to live in a safe society with minimal gun violence it’s not going to be the United states for the foreseeable future. A love of violence is very tightly linked to national identity in the collective conscience of Americans.
I don’t need to “observe” the defendant. He’s not an exhibit at the zoo.
Ah, well…you enjoy your dotage, pumpkin.
Me, I’m beginning my daily ten mile run at 5:00 a.m, so I’m busy. Ta!
He was charged with felony manufacture of heroin in the state of Washington. This is public record.
His felonies are listed in pretty much every story written about this event. Google is your friend.
What does JFK’s assassination have to do with any of this? Take off your tinfoil hat.
All witnesses are escorted, as are all jurors.
Since, unlike you and that disturbed creature with the Simpsons avatar, I am not a welfare sycophant with nothing to do all day, I cannot just attend trials for entertainment.
I know what he is — he is a career criminal, a person of bad character, who killed a passerby on a public pier with a gun he most likely stole. That’s who and what he is. That’s the sum of his life choices.
I guess the concept that they did not know the nature of the case, and were not supposed to consider such things, is beyond you. If they are working to clear out such warrants, that is a good thing. But again, i doubt this comes up that often.
Um, OK then. I guess.
Sending someone to bring a defendant to San Francisco because of a Bench Warrant that will be dropped immediately isn’t a “very minor issue”. Sorry.
H, just so you know, When a person is elected to a high level management position, such as Sheriff of a big city, they are given a staff and they are responsible for setting “policies” for that staff. Then they are responsible for following up to see that the policies are being followed.
So no, the top person isn’t responsible for keeping up with all of the nuances themselves, but they are responsible for maintaining a staff that does so.
Look it up, you might learn something!!!!
No, actually. I am just citing the findings of a Washington State Court, after a trial was conducted.
Were you there?
Didn’t think so.
Just as an FYI, some people have “day jobs” which preclude them from spending their mornings at the trial.
They brought him back because there was a bench warrant. It was that simple. Bench warrants don’t go away. They are not “just ignored.” Yes, this was an old one, but it had to be honored.
Please drop the fake condescension crap. You certainly seemed to imply such a thing. And cut this “voices in my head” crap. You are being an ass, and it gets tiresome. Are you remotely understanding that you are being an asshole?
You seem to think that the sheriff’s department has loads of time to deal with things that are very minor issues. Yes, this is a rare issue.
And clearly, you cannot discuss this rationally, so you resort to lame attempts to be funny, and make false implications. You have proven that you don’t have a real argument. You just ignore facts, and then pretend that my point them out is base on delusions.
Again,
I hope you’re getting paid for your comments cause otherwise you’tre not getting paid for your comments if you know what I mean.
You got that?
Go sit in the trial for a day.
Then, get back to reality.
Again, this ain’t Pablo Escobar!!
Although, they escort the witnesses against him in and out of court like he’s Pablo Escobar and they have to protect the witnesses against this dangerous man.
It’s strategy.
Prosecution is spending their money on huge contingents of deputies and cops and pretending that the poor ADA has to do this all on her own.
Again, come the friggin’ trial.
It’s free.
h.
Hey … hell, I forgot who I was attacking … that ever happen to you?
If you’re not getting paid by the word, you’re dumber than your posts.
h.
Bullpoop,
You really think Ross kept up with all of the individual nuances of the thousands and thousands of cases that ran before him?
Could you?
He had to trust someone to at least unlock the door to his office every day and lock it after he left but beyond that it’s all about trust.
I recall when Jake McGoldrick was elected supervisor and poor simple person that he’s always been, he made a simple comment to his other newly elected Class of 2000 …
“Well, we have to trust Staff don’t we?”
There was, to quote ‘A Thousand Clowns’ …
“Outright, prolonged laughter.”
Go Astros!
j/
Here’s another I can’t get answered,
Why the hell did they bring him back to SF anyway? I’m guessing it was deputies wanting the overtime. Will ANYONE confirm or deny this? I have contacts at the highest levels of every department and no one seems to know.
Go Astros!
(keep some perspective, the world is still spinning on other subjects)
h.
Again,
You’re a flat out liar. He has never been charged with manufacture of heroin. I must assume you’re a cop because only a cop would continually tell the same lie over and over to cover their own patooie.
Please, just as a courtesy to this audience?
Please produce the proof that this guy ever had anything to do with the heroin trade.
And, before you go there with your not so giant brain, he was not yet born when JFK was assassinated.
Go Astros!
h.
Wow,
You are just a flat out liar. That’s your right. You’re too cowardly to use your real name and that’s your right too. Mine is Harold Lee Brown. What’s yours?
When will you come up to me at the trial and introduce yourself?
I’m not scary.
Heck, I’m pushing 80,
Heroin?
No dealer in their right mind would trust this guy to sell their product.
Come to the gol durn trial!!
You continually run at the mouth about things of which you have no first hand knowledge and why am I writing to you at 5:20am?
Don’t I have a life?
Don’t I ever sleep?
Yes, to the first.
Not so much to the second.
I don’t have enough runway left to waste it unconscious.
Go Astros!
h
He, “manufacturing heroin”?
The only way this guy could ‘manufacture’ lunch is to dig thru a trash bin. You’re reaching for a Pablo Escobar description in order to justify your own ugly hate.
Please, the trial is free. Go watch it for a day and give a first hand comment.
Go Astros!
h.
Have you been to this trial and observed this defendant?
And, please help me deal with this …
I have been to virtually every minute of every session and I got to talking to a guy in the hall the other day and he was a white guy around 35 or whatever and he told me grimly that he was there when the shooting occurred and that therefore, “It is very personal to me.”.
He noted that he had not been called as a witness.
I’ll see if he’s there tomorrow and ask him more questions.
h.
Folks,
This guy is a starving nomad of limited cognitive ability due to how many times he’s been beaten in the head. Have any of you actually taken the time (take it! … you can guaranteed get in cause there are 24 Public seats and no more than 8 have taken tickets for the morning 9am lottery). After that they go to the out of town Press.
Go watch this trial for a day and then tell me what you think of the defendant.
Go Astros!
h.
He has been charged with manufacture, they’re felony charges, and it’s heroin, not pot.
Given the jury will indeed have to guess what happened that day, his credibility is what this really boils down to.
Right. Then add numerous felony drug charges and numerous deportations, and his word is worth less than zero.
There’s no convincing evidence he did NOT shoot on purpose.
That’s why it’ll come down to his credibility — and the credibility of his lawyer.
Murder 2 is not a stretch, however. Reasonable doubt is going to be a tough sell with that story. It’s just not very likely.
The Prosecutor in the Zarate case probably overplayed her hand with the murder charge, and may have been influenced by the media sensationalism about illegal immigration. Since all the defense has to prove is reasonable doubt, there is a good possibility that the charges will not stick.The concept that SF or any other “sanctuary “city is shielding hoards of immigrants to slaughter Americans is way overblown. San Francisco, in particular is way too expensive for most immigrants unless they are very rich.
Pro-business doesn’t really mean anything. Everywhere is pro-business. The city of SF still retains much of its original character, whether people vote liberal or conservative or are rich or poor. Having a contrarian viewpoint is not tied to one political party.For example Apple is a bit of a contrarian, avante garde company. Think about when Microsoft was used as the primary software for almost every computer in the United States in the 1990s. Apple positioned themselves as the alternative, in a way saying “We are different and we are better”
“His word isn’t worth much.” No one’s is, by itself. There’s no one so far who can say what was going on in his mind. So far, there’s no convincing evidence that he did shoot on purpose.
“he dealt in heroin in one way or another”: again, he has not been charged with dealing heroin.
Character, sure. No angel, sure. That’s not enough to make a guess as to what happened on that day. We need to get more facts, and we will soon.
@Geek__Girl, just work with me here for a minute…if you go back to the post do you see me say anywhere that I said “Mirkarimi was aware of Zarate before he shot Steinle”? Try to quell the voices in your head and just read what I wrote. See? It isn’t there!!! Are you starting to understand that the voices aren’t necessarily helping you?
Now, lets try it again
Did I say anything about a very rare issue? Look at what I did say
See the difference between what the voices say and what actually exists?
Again, try to discuss this with your minders and hopefully you will be given the help that you need. Best of luck, we are all rooting for you!
Except that his repeated convictions, his repeated thumbing his nose at our drug laws and our immigration laws speak to character and credibility. We have ONLY his word that he did not shoot intentionally. His word isn’t worth much.
I admit, I don’t suffer fools well. This is about their political agenda. They want to incite hatred and racism, not find the truth. They desperately need him to be viewed as a monster. In truth, an acquittal serves their cause better than a conviction, but they think otherwise.
Ah, another nutcase explanation. As I said, there does not appear to be anyone near Zarate who saw him fire. But suddenly, there was this miraculous cloud of people who just appeared instantly after the gun went off, so they could conveniently kick the casing into the water. Uh, year, sure. And these idiots accuse me of fantasy. Occam’s Razor…
Let’s see…we have these things called facts. Zarate was some distance from Steinle. The gun goes off, by this fool’s own admission, everyone runs towards her. Now, apparently no one was near Zarate, since no one saw what happened. Funny how he supposed raised, aimed, and fired, but one saw it. Odd, but people tend to notice someone with a gun, aiming at others. And the video show Zararte. Whoops, funny how that gets glossed over. It does not show him aiming, and that he was sitting when the gun went off.
So, somehow, the bullet “magically” got kicked off the pier. Once again, grasping at straws to make the case where none exists.
Listen jerk, he is not my hero. I simply pointed out fact. Your fellow nutcase is trying to paint him as a monster. Clearly the fact that the courts did not think he was that major an offender tends to negate her hysterics. At least for those who approach these things rationally, so, never mind, enjoy your rants.
ROTFL!!!
Okay, do you have a single shred of evidence that Mirkarimi was aware of Zarate before he shot Steinle? That he had any direct involvement in his being brought here? Again, this was a routine transfer. The Feds found a warrant, that had apparently been overlooked before, contacted SF, which followed proper procedure and said “Yes, we want him,” and he was handed over. I doubt even the deputy dealing with all this looked at the details. He just had a warrant, and followed the rules.
And you think Mirkarimi should have set a policy dealing with a very rare issue, just so that an improbable chain of events would lead to a tragic and accidental death.
And here I had been thinking you were one of the more rational people here. Clearly not. Just another extremist grasping at straws. Don’t worry, you and your ilk punished Mirkarimi for becoming sheriff and scaring poor Ed Lee. You lied, and connived, and helped Ron Conway slander him.
And they you try to slander me.
He should have known that having Zarate in San Francisco was not likely to be a good thing. We didn’t need another convicted felon wandering the streets trying to support their drug habit.
He is responsible for setting policy which his staff must follow. One of those policies could have been to review outstanding bench warrants that were highly unlikely to be prosecuted even if the defendant was found. Get them dismissed wherever possible. Unintended consequence: one additional young woman would be alive today.
Perhaps one of your minders could explain this to you in one of your calmer periods.
Maybe you’re a murderer, too. You have no felony convictions, either, just like Paddock. HMMM?
Once again, the drug convictions have nothing to do with whether he’s intentionally shot anyone. That’s all I am saying. Period.
But he dealt in heroin in one way or another, has several felony charges, over time, along with his other drug charges and his felony charges for his immigration law violations.
This speaks to character. He’s hardly an angel. And the defense had their opportunity to prove he was too mentally incompetent to stand trial, so that’s off the table now.
He’s a repeat offender who ended up killing someone.
Of course there is. I’m saying that I haven’t seen anything that says that Zarate was a heroin dealer.
Yup. By the same logic Stephen Paddock wasn’t responsible for the Las Vegas shootings. Like Zarate, there is nothing in his record indicating that he was a murderer. He didn’t even have any of those silly, meaningless felony conviction things.
I think those guns were left in his hotel room by the previous guest and they went off by themselves when he discovered them. When he realized what had happenned he felt badly and killed himself.
OK, that’s a bit of an exaggeration but it is essentially how ridiculous your logic is. Along with the whole thing about the gun being left in broad sight on Pier 14 instead of in a dumpster.
Don’t even bother. She has a long, troubled history involving targeting specific groups (talk about bigotry, yikes!) and individuals online, of stalking and harassment.
Narcotics trade, illegal drug sales, etc. — come on — you’re being deliberately obtuse now, too willing to give a known felon a pass because you have an agenda to push. Are you seriously trying to suggest that there’s no heroin industry/business going on in the US?
Seriously? IF you can read the comments from that kook, and think she is doing anything other than trying to do just what I said, then you are either blind, or you think her idiocy is legitimate. Most of her comments are factually inaccurate (wrong terms, a clear lack of understanding OR a deliberate misrepresentation of the law, assumptions that are not based on any actual facts…etc.) I did have one amusing thought. When I was in the process of showing what a kook she was, I joking made the suggestion that perhaps she was Mirkarimi’s neighbor. She claimed to be a JD. Now, that is the degree that a law school graduate earns, but no one would call their self a JD, unless they had failed the Bar exam. Like Mirkarimi’s nutcase of a neighbor. I said it as a joke, but perhaps I was right. I don’t know, and I don’t care. I mean, seriously, ALL I did was look at her profile, which she has since hidden, but which was public at the time, and quoted from a lengthly list of comments she had made on a number sites that use Disqus that showed her tendency to use insults, to try to bluff people, and to lie like Trump’s toupee. And if you look through her comments, you should find one where she makes a claim about how dangerous Mexicans are. I don’t imagine stuff, and I don’t make stuff up.
Now, you see, this is a false claim. The police, in an attempt to elicit a confession, told him that they had recovered the gun (they hadn’t) and had found his DNA on the weapon, and that this prove he had murdered Kate Steinle. Now, he knew that the gun had gone off, and I imagine he panicked, and made a story trying to avoid a murder charge, knowing he had not deliberately shot anyone. Also, keep in mind, he had not been properly Mirandized, and his English skills are poor. So, the poor guy is scared, being told stuff that sounds true to hm, but is not, and not realizing that what the police are claiming is absurd (DNA takes weeks to process, and even if they had found the gun, and had obtained DNA, which is unlikely after it went in the water, they could not have results that fast) he would be trying to tell them something he thinks will help him. In fact, if he were the hardened criminal of our resident kook’s fantasies, he would of have refused to answer questions, and have not said anything.
Okay, I just looked at the laws in the state of Washington. They are rather obtuse, and have it all lumped together regarding both legal, and illegal sales. Now, here is what blows our resident kook’s argument away. It is all in a section titled ARTICLE III—REGULATION OF MANUFACTURE, DISTRIBUTION, AND DISPENSING OF CONTROLLED SUBSTANCES. There is no separate crime of manufacturing. It is all treated the same, with the same penalties if done illegally.
http://apps.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=69.50&full=true#69.50.401
So, any claim that he was charged with manufacture, and any claim that he was making it in a lab, is pretty much fake. He was charged with “manufacture, distribution, and dispensing of controlled substances.” Weird way of doing it, but not the criminal mastermind our nutcase wants to create to haunt our nightmares.
Originally, narcotics referred to drugs that induce sleep. It comes from the Greek word, narcos, meaning “to make numb.” Over time, it became more common as a reference to opioids. On a larger scale, drugs are classed by Schedule. A Schedule 1 drug is abusable, and has no accepted (by the government) medical use. Heroin is Schedule 1 drug, as is Marijuana, though both have very legitimate medical uses, and are used in other countries. For example, in England, terminal cancer patients are given a cocktail containing heroin, and some other things, including alcohol, because it is the only thing that will relieve their pain. Obviously, addiction is not a concern. Being Schedule 1, it is all but impossible to even use them for research. Marijuana helps with nausea during chemotherapy, as well as a treatment for glaucoma.
There are several schedules of drugs. Schedule 2 includes the stronger opioids that allowed, and cocaine, which has limited use, mostly nasal surgery.
At the bottom end are some opioid drugs that are used for diarrhea and cough suppression.
What “heroin trade”?
ROTFL! It is schedule, not class. And again, heroin comes into the country as heroin. Opium poppies are not grown here in any large amounts. This kook keeps trying to claim that he was some wizard chemist who could make heroin. It is not remotely a simple process, and require serious knowledge. And then we are told what a hardened criminal Zararte is, and how he exhibited utter disregard for the law and for human life. This is all about creating fear to incite bigotry.
She has a tendency to twist things to suit her agenda. He committed some non-violent drug offenses. He was not a major dealer, and certainly not a drug lord.
Surely you are not trying to suggest that Mirkarimi had ANY reason to think that bringing him back here would result in a tragic death? I mean, I have seen people imply that Mirkarimi should have somehow seen that this would happen. And you clearly do not understand the nature of warrants. They are for the person, not necessarily the crime. In fact, I would wager the you cannot even show that Mirkarimi was aware of the case before Steinle was shot. Are you suggesting that the sheriff personally goes over every case brought in, just in case there is something that he can pull? He is an executive, who has people who work largely independently. The sheriff does not deal with small details like executing a warrant. He deals with the big picture. So, no, he did not drop the ball. You might as well claim that Ed Lee was responsible for the woman who was run over by a city employee driving a truck in a park. He should have been “on top of things.”
Yup. The heroin trade doesn’t hurt anyone. Thanks for your perspective.
Opium is extracted into morphine, which is then chemically converted into heroin. I believe that is all done overseas, where the chemicals are less controlled. Manufacturing, I suppose, could cover diluting pure heroin down to street strength, but I don’t know if that’s what he did.
You know….when the argument for your hero is that he didn’t get long jail terms for his multiple felony convictions…..whatever. Knock your self out.
If he snuck across the border once or 100 times, it still doesn’t make him a murderer. Until I know what the details of the drug charges were, I can’t judge hold them against him. You’re getting excited by the word “felony”, but so far there’s nothing to indicate that he committed any crime that hurt other people. I’d be more alarmed if he’d been charged with slapping someone’s face (a misdemeanor assault) or disturbing the peace, but he’s never even been charged with that.
Mirkarimi could have called Gascon and ask him to send someone over to the court and get Zarate’s bench warrant dismissed BEFORE they brought him here. Zarate didn’t need to be there to watch something good happen to his status. His representatives weren’t going to argue against the dismissal.
So Mirkarimi dropped the ball. If we want to play chain of events then the woman would be alive today if Mirkarimi was on top of things.
Look, it isn’t $20 worth of pot. There were multiple felonies including heroin possession and manufacturing. You don’t get to just wipe off those felonies because you don’t like them. That’s why we have courts.
And he didn’t just sneak across the border once. He did it multiple times after he was caught and the courts sent him home.
I’m really sorry that the established facts don’t fit your narrative, but the facts won’t change no matter how much you try to misrepresent them.
Yeah…you said that people were making “wild accusations of violence, rape, murder, theft, etc. with no actual basis” and I was just trying to somehow tell you that those were only the voices in your head speaking.
I tried. Best of luck to you.
Yeah, like there is no difference between leaving a car unlocked, and leaving a gun improperly stored in accordance with Federal standards for agents to comply with. We very recently had a deputy who was fired for allowing his gun to be stolen, and in another case, someone was murdered with a gun stolen from an SFPD officer.
The police, including Mark Furman, who IS a racist, either conspired with the DA’s office in LA, to plant evidence, OR the LAPD has incredibly incompetent officers. Things like officers going to crime scenes in the case, while carrying vials of blood taken from Simpson in their pockets. And the blood found at those crime scenes having preservatives that are present in blood that is taken for lab test to prevent breakdown and clotting. And other such shenanigans by the police. There are strict procedures to be followed, just so that a sharp defense attorney cannot raise questions that lead to reasonable doubt. Did Simpson kill them? We will probably never know, because the LAPD engaged in questionable, incompetent, and possibly illegal activity. And claiming it was all a big whoopsie was laughable.
Let’s see…Ed Lee, who was foisted on us by Willie Brown, to replace Gavin Newsom, who was pro-business, pro-capitalism, and pro-development. Newsom replaced Willie Brown, who was pro-business, pro-capitalism, and pro-development. Brown replaced Frank Jordan, who was pro-business, pro-capitalism, and pro-development and a neo-fascist. Jordan replaced Art Agnos, who was the last decent mayor San Francisco has had. He was the mayor when the Loma Prieta earthquake hit, and destroyed a large amount of low income housing South of Market. When the Red Cross and the Federal Government refused to help those displaced, Jordan allowed them to camp in Civic Center, which angered certain groups. Before that, we had Diane Feinstein, who was pro-business, pro-capitalism, and pro-development. And before the, we had George Moscone, who was murdered by Dan White, who was pretty far right, White, of course, also killed Harvey Milk. Go back a bit further, and there were several Republican mayors. The mayor is elected by downtown interests who can spend huge amounts of money to sway voters. The chances of a decent mayor, who does not pander to the 1% is very slim. I don’t know when she imagines that time was, when a mayor like Lee could be elected, but it was definitely not since 1992. And it occurred before then as well.
I don’t remember. I found that back when the case was being used to attack the sheriff. There was an article that went into detail about his actual crimes, and the times served. And our resident kook ignores the fact that heroin arrives in that form. Opium poppies are grown in places like Afghanistan, Iran, China, and India. They are processed into opium, which is refined into heroin, usually in Europe. Unlike methamphetamine, which can be easily made from pseudoephedrine, making heroin is a time-consuming, laborious, and expensive process. It requires considerable technical knowledge. That is why it arrives in this country already refined. The idea that Zarate was making it is absurd. The crime of manufacturing he was charged with refers to packaging it for sale, or even for one’s own use. It is rarely, if ever made in this country, if only because it would require importing about ten times as much opium, by weight, as the amount of heroin that results. Now, there is also some very poorly made heroin out of Mexico, called black tar, which is cheaper to make, and looks like black tar, or coal depending on the process. It can be injected subcutaneously, or smoked or snorted.
Oh, come on — his repeated illegal entries, his repeated drug offenses…this is a career criminal. He’s completely untrustworthy.
Yeah, we’ll see.
For me, the outcome is more important from a political perspective and how it will play into Kamala Harris’s chances as a candidate in 2020.
“The drug charges speak to his credibility”— I’ve met people in the US illegally and people who’ve messed with drugs at various levels, and most of them were neither bad people, nor untrustworthy.
Anyway, there’s two more weeks of this. We haven’t heard the defense’s case at all yet, other than the opening comments. The prosecution’s case looks weak so far. Gonzales opened holes in it far too easily. But we’ll see.
Well put. When this case first broke, the early reports made it look like some weird random shooting. But then facts started coming out. Like many, I heard that he claimed he was shooting at seals. That would, of course, have resulted in a charge of felony murder most likely. The more things came out, the more questions I had. Nothing made a lot of sense. I did notice that a lot of nasty people were trying to use this case to further political agendas that I, personally, found reprehensible. The mayor had a vendetta against Ross Mirkarimi, apparently, because he saw him a political threat. When he failed in his attempt to remove the sheriff, he began acting like a petulant child. And Ron Conway funded a massive campaign to attack him at ever chance.
As details of the shooting came forward, it became obvious that things were being distorted. Zarate is not some evil person, hell bent on killing, raping, and stealing. He is just another poor Mexican look for a better life. He is not very educated, and has spent more time in prison for the horrible crime of coming to the United States than anything else. The other crimes resulted in very short prison terms, even though they were “felonies.” People have tried to imply bizarre conspiracies claiming that the sheriff specifically had him brought to San Francisco in order to release him. That is ludicrous. They cannot point to any evidence, but they present it as proven fact. In fact, over on SFGate, there are regular calls for him to be lynched, and threats about what should, or will, happen if he is acquitted.
As I’ve said, I highly doubt the story he and his lawyer concocted after he’d already admitted to intentionally firing the weapon. But it’s not up to me to decide that — it’s up to the jury. And if his previous record leads them to believe he is a man of bad character who has led a life of crime and contempt for the law and therefore they don’t buy his “gun went off by itself” story, so be it.
The drug charges speak to his credibility, as do his repeated deportations and his breaking of our immigration laws. Sorry, but he’s not exactly a trustworthy guy.
If it’s shown that he’d shot a person, or shot at a person, then, yes, you could say he’s a bad person, and so will I.
Right now, he’s either someone who shot at people (per the prosecution), or someone who picked up a gun wrapped in a shirt, which accidentally went off (per the defense). If the first turns out to be true, then he’s a killer. If the second, then he’s an unlucky fuck-up. Either way, what I’ve seen about the drug charges doesn’t add anything.
Aquamarine. That is exactly what she does. I mean, seriously. Look her latest claim. He had to “alert their security team.” Whatever. I have no idea who this person is in real life. I have no desire to know. She is upset because I looked at her history and exposed what a nutcase she is. She now has it blocked, so no one can look at it. Then again, so do you.
ROTFL! You have a very vivid and disturbed imagination. It would be rather odd for me to stalk your family, when I have no idea who you are, where you live, or who your family members are. You are truly one of the screwiest people here. You will stoop to the lowest level to try to win. And really? Your security team?
No. I responded to various commenters who suggested there’s no reason that he’d ever harm anyone that he actually had a pretty long criminal history, including serious drug charges that involved serious drugs, and that he also showed contempt for the law, so this myth that there’s no reason to assume he’d intentionally hurt anyone was just that — a myth.
YOU said he isn’t a menace to human life, but we’re beyond that point now, beyond the point of saying that because the very reason we’re here discussing this is that he killed someone.
It’s like saying “he seemed like such a nice guy, there’s no reason to believe he’d do something like this” when the Feds dig up a couple dozen bodies from someone’s backyard. Yeah, he’s not nice, and yeah, he would do something like that.
It’s a circular argument. You’ve been arguing that because he was a dangerous man, he must have shot Steinle on purpose. Now you’re saying that because he shot her, that proves he’s a dangerous man.
Perhaps, but the amount is important too, to receive that charge, so it’s unlikely.
Look, the guy’s life shows he’s a bad character.
And he IS a menace to human life. This is a fact. Kate Steinle died at his hands. It doesn’t get any more menace-y than that. He killed someone.
@Geek__Girl – For your own good, please go through the responses to any of the Zarate trial articles here and try to find one example of:
It’s for your own good, and then be open to asking for and accepting help. Best of luck to you!
You’re still not answering my point, which I have asked you about 3 or 4 times already.
If he was cooking heroin for his own use, that would, AFAIK, be considered “manufacturing narcotics”, a felony. It would not, however, indicate the “disregard to human life” that a murderer would display. That’s all I’m saying. Show me that he was putting other people’s life in danger, and we’ll go from there. Until then, all I see is a messed-up guy, for sure, but not a menace to human life.
Gonzalez said that the lack of a shell casing being found proves the existence of the Magic T-shirt. Because the shell casing must have got stuck in the Magic T-shirt. And therefore it proves that the shooting was unintentional (Hey, listen, @Geek__Girl:disqus believes it so maybe someone on the Jury also hears voices in their head — you never know).
Obviously there are a few hundred other perfectly plausible explanations. And even the gun being in the Magic T-shirt doesn’t mean that Zarate wasn’t handling it in a manner that showed reckless disregard for those around him while holding a deadly weapon.
Marijuana is Class 1, but it’s not a narcotic.
I suspect he would produce for others in order to make money, pay for his own habit, which is generally what happens. He doesn’t have to be a high-ranking member of a cartel, but he would most likely have manufactured enough product to satisfy his own needs and make money to continue to be able to produce to satisfy his own needs.
It’s a felony narcotics charge, not just some dude smoking a little weed. His record speaks for itself. This is a hardened criminal, and one who has exhibited utter disregard for the law and for human life.
And he shot Kate Steinle. Which is what this trial is about — a known offender, a repeat offender, a felon, who shot Kate Steinle.
“Narcotics” is the broad term for all controlled drugs from pot on up, but supposing that it is heroin, what makes you think that he produced it for distribution to others than himself?
Narcotics.
“for felony heroin possession and manufacturing narcotics”. Again, these are legal names for the felonies. It doesn’t say what he actually did. Where do you get “involve the manufacture and distribution of a drug that has the potential [to] kill people”?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Kathryn_Steinle
http://www.latimes.com/local/crime/la-me-sf-shooting-20150707-story.html
‘He “repackaged” a small amount of heroin’ — where did you find these details? I wasn’t able to find anything.
“she is a nutcase”—yes, well, I’m just curious to see if their argument will unfold beyond the Those Damn Liberals and beyond Just Hang Him Already.
“… they involve the manufacture and distribution of a drug” i.e. heroin. What’s your source regarding the details of these charges? All I’ve seen is the official charge “manufacturing”, which can also apply to growing a pot plant.
Yes, he’s careless, stupid, even negligent (an important factor in a civil suit), but he is not a criminal, nor did he shoot Kate Steinle. He’s not on trial here.
Things have already begun to change — there was a time when the citizens of this city would never have elected a pro-business, pro-capitalism, pro-development mayor like we have now.
The lack of a shell casing on a busy pier with open sides upon which there had just been a gun killing, causing people to run, isn’t all that telling. It’s just not evidence of anything in particular.
The car analogy isn’t really appropriate here. A federal agent who leaves a loaded pistol in a car in an urban area may not be criminally negligent but he is pretty damn careless and stupid. San Francisco is a deep blue city in the bluest state in the country , even if a lot of rich people move in I doubt that will change. Cities usually retain the character of the people who founded them. Chicago was an Indian trading post where people were cheated, scalped and shot – it hasn’t really changed that much.
Mother’s milk leads to everthing… ;~)
If you leave your car unlocked, someone steals it, becomes impaired by using drugs and/or alcohol, gets on the road and kills someone with it, are you responsible for the death of that person because you carelessly left your car unlocked?
They’re felony charges, and they involve the manufacture and distribution of a drug that has the potential — quite often does, actually — kill people. This speaks to a disregard for human life.
Well, yes, juries aren’t supposed to consider other issues, but juries are human. If attorneys and jury consultants could figure out the human factor, they’d be bajillionaires.
I’ve sat on three juries in criminal cases in San Francisco these past 8 years, so I guess I’m pretty good choice according to both prosecutors and defense attorneys, lol.
I not only had to block her, but I had to alert our security team to the possibility that some loon is stalking my family.
They weren’t, not really — sure, they were among the well-heeled and educated, but they were not elitist.
He “repackaged” a small amount of heroin. And she is a nutcase who doesn’t think Trump losing the popular vote, and having incredibly low approval ratings mean anything.
Again, the manufacturing charge means he put the heroin in a different package. He was not “Walter White.” And he did not serve a long sentence.
This kook wouldn’t know reality if it came up and slapped her.
Funny how this kook fails to mention that the the burden is on the prosecution. They have to PROVE he is guilty. So far, they are failing to do that.
Many here are trying to stir up fear and hatred. They despise Mexicans, and make wild accusations of violence, rape, murder, theft, etc. with no actual basis. They deliberately lie in support of Trump and his desire to surpress rights.
Calling such people bigots, racists, and Nazis is just the truth. The specific kook I was addressing has lied repeatedly.
Not true. I’ve had my “run in’s” with Geek Girl in prior threads, and I’ve given up interacting with her. And if you want to look into my posting history on this subject, you’ll see that I’ve asked Tim on more than one occasion why he had a rooting interest in this guy’s innocence.
And if you think the Founding Father’s weren’t elitists, well, I don’t know what to tell you.
This has been fun, but I think I’m done with this thread. As previously stated, I hope you have a nice weekend, be it in NY, SF or wherever else you find yourself
I am a believer in that concept. That does not preclude me, a non-involved party, from expressing my opinion. That’s the part you seem to misunderstand.
You don’t seem to make these comments to people who are claiming as fact that he is not guilty. Presumption of innocence is not the same as proof of innocence.
Why are you not equally as hard on those folks?
And it doesn’t get a heckuva lot more coastal than I — I own condos in SF and NYC. I’m just not an elitist, much like our Founding Fathers.
I haven’t opined on the defendant’s guilt or innocence, other than to point out the foundation of our legal system that one is presumed innocent. Sorry if you’re not a believer in that concept (one that I should point out was enshrined into law by the Founding Fathers, who were a bunch of elites who *gasp* lived on the coast)
why is the lack of a shell casing important?
As I said, I am not on the jury. I am free to discuss this from my personal perspective. If you really and truly believed what you just wrote, you wouldn’t be opining in public yourself.
none of us, here on this open discussion board, are on the jury. We can debate the merits or demerits of SF’s sanctuary city ordinance, because we’re not subject to the Judge’s rules. We have more information, speculative bandwith and latitude than the jury members.
And calling people “kooks” or “bigots” or having an “agenda of hate”, slurring those you disagree with, or are unable to persuade (if that’s your goal) isn’t respectful or thoughtful. It’s downright intolerant and malicious.
He is presumed innocent, so the default position is innocence until the prosecution proves otherwise. You seem to have it backwards. Have a nice weekend
not solely responsible.
I’m not sure what the manufacturing charges were. Was he running a lab? Was he cooking a spoonful for his own use? That would make a difference.
“like the OJ trial, it has become something else entirely”: To the jury, it should not, if the judge and lawyers are doing their job. Same as with OJ.
“people have had it with liberal elites ramming their crap values down other people’s throats.”
Have it your way, but people like you are the first to be excused during jury selection.
I’m not on the jury.
I cannot see any evidence that he is not guilty. No one has provided any as of yet.
His felony heroin charges are problematic, especially the manufacture charge. Plus, the reality of the case is that, like the OJ trial, it has become something else entirely, fair or not. Look around the world — people have had it with liberal elites ramming their crap values down other people’s throats. At some point, people push back. That’s what the defense is really up against. Reality.
It’s not quite distraction. The question I see Gonzales putting in front is not whether the BLM guy was negligent in losing the gun, it’s whether he could plausibly have left it cocked and easy to discharge accidentally.
As far as Zarate goes, the defense doesn’t need to prove that it was accidental, only that it’s plausible enough to cast a reasonable doubt on the prosecution’s claims. Tat’s all there job is right now.
Zarate’s background may or may not be admissible in court, and the prosecution may or may not want to bring it in anyway. If the jury, like you, think that sneaking across the border and selling $20 of pot indicate such depravity that murder is but a short step away, then yes, it would help the prosecution to make that case. If they don’t, then it may backfire. The defense could equally point out that there’s no record of any violence in Zarate’s past.
The social experiment we are trying to keep going here is Due Process, going back to the Bill of Rights and before it to the Magna Carta. We liberals happen to like it. We’re like that.
You believe Zarate intentionally pulled the trigger. I don’t believe anything one way or the other until I’ve seen what the evidence is. Relying to enthusiastically on gut feeling can lead to lynching, which is something to be shunned.
It reminds me a bit of the OJ trial. Remember: How can OJ be innocent if Mark Furman is a racist? And OJ’s lawyers did everything they could do make the trial about Mark Furman and not OJ.
The BLM officer displayed horrible judgement but apparently didn’t break any laws. It has been obvious even before the trial started that Matt Gonzalez was going to try and make this about the BLM officer and not Zarate (you can go back to August/September and see the articles that he had Tim Redmond write back then).
But Zarate is on trial, not the BLM officer, which is why the judge continuously disallowed the questions that Gonzalez knew would not be answered but he wanted to get it in front of the jury anyway.
Maybe the BLM should be on trial, but he isn’t. And if he was it would be a totally different trial. Maybe San Francisco should have signs up on 101 and 280 that say “Welcome to San Francisco, do not leave valuables in your car”.
Pure distraction.
I’m not sure what moral high ground you’re standing on if you’ve already determined the guy guilty before all of the evidence has been presented.
Negligent is an understatement. He had a gun that was loaded, and possibly cocked. It was improperly secured, and was in a car that not only carried him, but also his fiancé and children. He had been issued a lock that would prevent the gun from being fired, but even with children present, he did not have it on the gun. He is clearly careless, Gonzales did his job. I know that infuriates the kooks, but tough. They hate America, and want a fascist state.
Notice how the kook just dismisses the mounting evidence supporting their theory. It can’t be easily explained away, so just claim it doesn’t exist. “Evidence, what evidence, I see no evidence!!!!” No, this is NOT a referendum on San Francisco’s Sanctuary policy. The judge has made that clear. But, that is the driving passion behind this kook’s politics. Pure hatred. This person is a hateful bigot, who will lie repeatedly to push an agenda of hate.
This kook loves to throw out crap like “We have no reason to believe Zarate did not steal the gun and intentionally fire it on the pier.” What a load of crap. First off, there is NO REASON to think he did steal the gun. NONE!!! Unless one is a right wing kook that is dead set on creating a political lie, there is no reason. There are plenty of reasons to believe he did not intentionally fire it on that pier. The lack of a shell casing, the lack of power residue, the video presented by the prosecution. All of these support the defense’s theory.
There are some who cannot tolerate any scenario that does not support their hateful view of Mexicans as vicious criminals just waiting to invade the United States and rape, steal, murder, and destroy. No wonder she claims to have no knowledge of the history of Southern white supremacist claims that black males were a threat to “innocent white Southern maidens,” she is repeating with Mexicans as the target.
Then the defense will have to prove it was an accidental shot, and they can’t. There is no evidence that speaks to accidental v. intentional. This is going to be a circumstantial evidence case — Zarate’s background will be extremely important and, fair or not, this has become a referendum on San Francisco’s sanctuary city policy. We live in interesting and volatile times — people around the world are fed up with socialism, liberalism, progressivism and are seeking a return to establish national identities. People have had it with coastal elites in this nation pretending they have the moral high ground on social issues when we can all see how badly their social experiments have failed.
I believe Zarate is guilty. I believe he intentionally pulled the trigger. And I believe that Kate Steinle would be alive were it not for San Francisco’s policies. I would imagine there are people on that jury who share my beliefs.
We shall see what we shall see…
http://www.nola.com/crime/index.ssf/2012/11/how_liable_is_the_owner_of_a_s.html
This is a legal analysis of similar situations in New Orleans. The basics: if you leave an unsecured gun in an unlocked car and it’s stolen and used to commit a crime, you’re not liable. If the gun is stolen but then accidentally discharged and hurting someone, you could be liable, just as you would be if you left a gun around in the open.
I’m sure Gonzales knew that the prosecution would object and that the judge would sustain the objection. Woychowski does appear to have been negligent, but his legal responsibility for the negligence does not affect Zarate’s legal responsibility, and everyone in the court is aware of that.
Gonzales probably took this opportunity, by cross-examining Woychowski, to portray him to the jury as a careless person, who may have left the gun in single-action mode, on purpose or not. That is an essential point for the accidental discharge scenario.
…of course he’s responsible…it was his weapon.
You know who bears responsibility that fish that crawled out of the water and onto land, setting off a chain of events through evolution to man’s mass migration 70000 years ago, with the incredible probability that both the agent and the accused being alive at the same time. That leads us to the agent leaving his gun in the car; it being stolen and used in a crime. Fucking crawling fish.
He does not bear responsibility. He did not shoot Steinle. Zarate did. We have no reason to believe Zarate did not steal the gun and intentionally fire it on that pier. His background indicates a life of criminality, of utter disregard for others and for the law. If someone steals a car and kills someone in an automobile accident, we do not hold the owner of the car responsible.
If we’re going to go down this “chain of events” and assign blame to everyone but the criminal who shot Kate Steinle, then San Francisco politicians who flout federal law and harbor, aid and abet known criminals are also to blame, as is the SFPD for basically decriminalizing breaking into automobiles and stealing stuff.
San Francisco’s mind-so-open-brain-fell-out illiberalism is where this chain of events begins.